Author Topic: Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA  (Read 881 times)

alexbn71

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Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA
« on: September 06, 2019, 06:12:02 AM »
Hi,

I'm curious to know if there is a particular reason for not having provided the RN2483 radio module option on Moteino.
There are at least a couple of example on the web of boards using both RFMxx and RN2483, overlapping the two footprints allowing you to solder one of the two modules as desired.

https://www.tindie.com/products/luisgonc/iot-tremoco/
https://www.tindie.com/products/eTh0maz/tvb-lorawan-node-rev2b/

I used both these modules (RFMxx and RN2483) and a standalone solution like RN2483 is more reliable since it not depend on the timings of the main processor. I had lot of trouble with 8bit MCU that had to do very intensive processes and at the same time manage the entire LoRa stack. Last but not least ... the cost difference is not even so high as to justify the use of the cheaper one (there would also be others such as the LoRa certification that is missing for the RFMxx).

I'm asking because I'm very interested in a solution that uses an ATMEGA1284 and the module in question and I was just thinking of using Moteino as a base to do it my self.. unless the author of Moteino was interested in this feature

Thanks
Alex
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 09:21:25 AM by alexbn71 »

Felix

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Re: Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2019, 09:50:35 AM »
Interesting proposition. Precertified modules are nice, but you talk to them over a UART interface (like to ESP modules) and you're limited to the stack provided by the manufacturer, so you typically do NOT have access to modifying many radio settings, so you're forced to use whatever they offer.

Then you're paying a lot of money for the whole module, because it contains a MCU+transceiver and because its a modular cert, then you still have to certify your product as a whole, so while it's an advantage, its not a full ready to go solution if youre looking for a fully certified product.

You can build a simple breakout board for the MoteinoMEGA (look at this Github repo where you have Eagle templates for that) that includes your desired module/sensor/whatever. For me to stock/solder/support these modules would mean marking them up and I doubt many people would be interested in that.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:52:10 AM by Felix »

alexbn71

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Re: Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2019, 10:30:36 AM »
The stack provided (which in this case is sufficiently configurable) is for LoRa comunication and can be used with any LoRaWAN network, even outside the specifications of the LoRa Alliance®.
I believe that this is perhaps the greatest use made of it and therefore I do not see the need to modify it. I would like to know how much is the percentage of those who use "customized" LMIC (excluding peer-to-peer cases). I do not mean simply the configuration of the channels, the duty cycle or RX windows and so on...

About money... RN2483 costs 11,82€ (Digikey/Farnell/RS Componets) ... on your site RFM95 option for Moteino MEGA is sold at 12,00€? where am I wrong?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:52:20 AM by Felix »

Felix

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Re: Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2019, 10:51:12 AM »
About money... RN2483 costs 11,82€ (Digikey/Farnell/RS Componets) ... on your site RFM95 option for Moteino MEGA is sold at 12,00€? where am I wrong?
First the Euro is != USD. So they are not the same price, the RN is more at 1Qty.
Then $11.95 is for an installed and tested RFM95 module not a bare radio module (read: I cannot work for free).
And finally, you can get the RFM95 at half the price if you're willing to wait a long time.

Anyway, the final sale cost to make something like this on a MoteinoMEGA would be around $55. Compare that to $31.95 for a MoteinoMEGA+RFM95, a big difference.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:54:17 AM by Felix »

alexbn71

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Re: Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2019, 04:35:43 PM »
Anyway, the final sale cost to make something like this on a MoteinoMEGA would be around $55. Compare that to $31.95 for a MoteinoMEGA+RFM95, a big difference.

You are right if you plan to double the costs of any component you mount on this board ;D or you can chose to buy 25pz at 12$ (Digikey) and sell the board for 40$ (+8$ respect the cost of 1 RFM95?)... without considering that the money remains in the US with Microchip :D

Alex

Felix

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Re: Felix: RN2483 & Moteino MEGA
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 09:44:56 AM »
You are right if you plan to double the costs of any component you mount on this board ;D or you can chose to buy 25pz at 12$ (Digikey) and sell the board for 40$ (+8$ respect the cost of 1 RFM95?)... without considering that the money remains in the US with Microchip :D

This thread is diverging off topic, but let's wrap this up.
One Q first: did you ever try to create a product to sell, and make a living from it?

Anyway I am all ears about your proposal of making an economically viable product, what the price should be.

For making this for commercial use - depending on many factors like how complex and time consuming it is to make something electronic - very roughly you have to double or more like triple the cost of BOM. From the "profit" margin you have to cover a lot of other costs (like failed boards that go in the trash) and taxes, and remain profitable to pay your own personal bills, feed your family, and save for retirement ;)

For you as a hobbyist of course you only count the actual cost of the parts without the worry of having to deal with any other risks or costs.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:00:33 PM by Felix »