Using a generic FTDI232RL with Moteinos

[Mundificant]

Hi, I have a couple of Chinese FTDI232RL cards, as seen here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-3V-5-5V-FT232RL-FTDI-USB-TTL-Serial-Adapter-Module-Arduino-Mini-Port-/111291259387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e979d9fb

I'd like to use these with my Moteinos (in addition to the one LowPowerLab FTDI adapter Ihave), but when I plug in a Moteino with straight-through connector, I never see evidence of power on the Moteino, nor the transmission LED flickering. I have the jumper in the 3.3v position. Any thoughts about what might be wrong?

Thanks.

[KanyonKris]

The first thing I'd do is make sure power (5V) and ground are on the correct pins - compare with the LowPowerLab FTDI adapter.

Then compare the documentation of the eBay FTDI to the LPL FTDI, look for differences, change settings if you can - http://lowpowerlab.com/shop/FTDI-Adapter

A simple search turned up this post about eBay USB-to-serial adapter with different chip and pinouts - http://jimlaurwilliams.org/wordpress/?p=999

Your eBay units may have fake FTDI chips - http://hackaday.com/2014/02/19/ft232rl-real-or-fake/

Good luck getting those to work, it looks you'll need it.

[BR549]

I haven't tested on a Moteino, but on other Arduino Minis when using these clone adapters I have to switch board type to "Arduino Pro Mini" before downloading and then reset the processor to force it into bootloader. It pays to get a real FTDI (like LPL's)  if the board doesn't have a convenient reset button.
It is almost guaranteed that the FTDI is fake if the adapter costs < $5 since the chip itself is more than that at the 10,000 unit price. That said, for downloading Arduinos a fake FTDI will probably work fine; the key is wiring DTR to pull the processor reset.
I recently got some fake Prolific units which work up to 57,600; they start giving errors at 115,200 (Real ones should work up to at least 921,600). 
This describes a board designer's bad experience due to fake chips:  http://gadgetmakersblog.com/2/ 

[kobuki]

You can use any cheap USB-to-serial interface as long as the following conditions are met:

- logic output levels are 3.3V max for any 3.3V device like the Moteino
- it has the DTR line broken out so you can auto-reset the device on sketch upload

I'm using both FTDI and SiLabs CP210x interfaces and apart from them using different drivers they all work fine. For powering from the USB port, make sure the module has 5V Vcc out so the Moteino can efficiently use its 3.3V LDO, otherwise power it directly on the 3.3V pin or use some external source.

[Mundificant]

So, it turns out that this FTDI device does use a real FTDI chip, and is  correctly detected and configured by Win 7when it is plugged in.

My error turned out to be not initially noticing that the pins on the generic FTDI board connector are exactly inverted, as compared the Felix's FTDI adapter. A six conductor flat cable simply needs to be twisted 180 degrees for the correct pins to line up properly. Fortunately, plugging the cable in backwards didn't fry anything and all is working perfectly now. One additional note: the Chinese generic version of the FTDI adapter has a pretty annoying, very bright power indicator LED.

Needless to say, Felix's FTDI board is neater and smaller, and a more elegant solution for the Moteino, for which I give him kudos. The same can be said for his integrated USB Moteino; much more elegant and convenient, but for me, the 100% cost penalty for the integrated FTDI compared to using a separate generic FTDI solution is simply prohibitive.

I suspect that the best solution is to simply get a handle on the wireless download capabilities of the Moteino and after an initial load, use wireless programming to update my nodes.

Again, Felix, thanks for the great work!

[BR549]

I agree, all the modules seem to have overly bright leds.  Annoyingly, several of the Prolific modules I have look identical but have different pinouts. Because of the fake FTDIs and Prolifics, I am going to try some of the CP210x ones; I haven't seen any reports of fakes and they are cheap: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181202034360?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[LazyGlen]

Sorry to bark in, but there's no such thing as a "fake". They just use different chips. We could call them a copy or a clone though, that uses cheaper parts. FTDI chips are comparatively expensive. There are SiLabs chips that are pin-compatible with the FTDI one and cost the fraction of the FTDI one.

I don't want to start a flame war, but I feel the need to take issue with this.

fake
adj.
Having a false or misleading appearance; fraudulent.

I've got no problem buying a cheaper version of something, buying an adapter that uses another vendors chips that are pin-compatible and cheaper is fine - AS long as they are so marked and advertised. The problem starts when a knockoff company labels the parts as something they are not. The link that KanyonKris posted above: http://hackaday.com/2014/02/19/ft232rl-real-or-fake/ is  CLEARLY discussing FAKES. The chip is marked as an FTDI chip, without knowing that genuine chips use laser etched markings you would not be able to determine which was an FTDI product. Mark the chips with your own companies name, call it "FTDI compatible" and charge fifty cents (or fifty dollars) and there is no problem. But misrepresenting it as something it isn't, is fraud.

To head off the "Well, you must know it wasn't real when it cost less than half the going market rate..." argument - if the only way to visually determine which is the genuine product is by the price tag stuck on the outside, it is definitely a fake. Perhaps a very good one, but fake and fraudulent nonetheless.

FTDI may be a victim of their own success in this regard, truth be told, I was not even aware that they existed until recently. I have an AdaFruit FTDI-TTL cable and thought "FTDI" was the 6-pin interface. My 8 year old daughter and I were playing with the Arduino's and she asked what FTDI stood for. Cue classic blank look, followed by stuttering, followed by "You know what? I don't know, lets look it up." A few minutes later we were both smarter, and I hope she learned a lesson that will pay off many times in her life.

LG

[kobuki]

Sorry, my mistake, I clearly haven't paid enough attention to the matter (hastily answering and not reading up everything is a bad idea). That is, indeed, a fake, no doubt. I removed my message, no need for the noise here.

[Felix]

Here's my 2 cents on the matter. The problem with fakes is they might work in most cases and not in some.
You might save $5-10 on such a fake, but the debug time and grief they can cause when they don't work will far outweigh that saving.
Using a semi-faulty now-it-works now-it-doesn't component is like hunting ghosts.

Whoever is looking to save $10 on a component that would normally cost $15 and you buy once and use forever after, that person should find another hobby. I can understand "cheap" and DIY electronics got very good at doing things quite cheaply, but I think there's a bottom limit which if you cross, it's no man's electronics land where there are no ethics and everything is possible, and that's what's scary - there are no certainties. You get what you pay for that's for sure.

[BR549]

Felix, how do you know the chips you buy are "real?"  I am asking because I am beginning to order and build small boards for my projects and wonder if I just have to trust Mouser, Digikey, etc. to source good product or is there a better way?
B

[Felix]

How do you know for sure? You use heated fuming nitric acid to decap it and analyze the die, like these guys: http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal
JK .. I think I will trust Digikey more than the guy on ebay

[jra]

Sometimes you get lucky.  I bought http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-6Pin-USB-2-0-TTL-UART-Module-Serial-Converter-CP2102-STC-Replace-FT232-/400565980221 last year because I had a lot of systems I was debugging at the same time.  4/5 worked flawlessly, one of them works as a converter but the reset doesn't work, probably need to cut a trace and apply a green wire fix.  I've heard some noise about CP21xx driver issues on Windows but these worked out of the box on Linux.

[KanyonKris]

Mundificant, good work figuring out your FTDI adapters.

BR549, you're right, in general you're pretty safe with most big distributors like Digikey, Mouser, Arrow, etc. as they keep a close eye on their supply chain since if they get caught selling fakes it would hurt their reputation/business. Talking with a PCB assembler a few years ago, they were sold fake parts here and there, they had dump several suppliers and only use those they felt they could trust. For the hobbiest, more of a gamble with smaller and on-line sellers like eBay.