Author Topic: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?  (Read 6580 times)

WhiteHare

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2015, 03:18:09 PM »
His comment was, "What's it gonna tell ya?  That its dry?"


 ;D  That's a good story.   ;D

I think for indoor PIR I'm going to try an Optex EX-35R, which is intended to be battery operated and allegedly draws just 3.5uA while in standby and has a wide 2.3 to 10v operating voltage.  Looks like they can be acquired for around $30.  One thing I don't know is whether the Moteino will fit comfortably inside it or not, but I'm hopeful.

Panasonic used to (still does?) make a 1uA PIR sensor element, but I can't seem to find anywhere that has it in stock.  It would have cost around $15 for just the PIR element itself, and I think that's a fair price if it can really do its business.  It would be easier and require much less maintenance than a solar installation.  So, I mention it here in case anyone finds that intriguing and wants to chase one down for themselves.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 03:22:06 PM by WhiteHare »

kobuki

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2015, 03:32:19 PM »
This EX-35R looks like a really good candidate. Its casing is purposefully built with a lot of extra space inside to accomodate a battery and a radio transmitter.

Datasheet.

WhiteHare

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2015, 03:36:02 PM »
I have a moteino inside my car engine bay for months and nothing stopped working until now. I have made about 3 hours or continuous rides with it next to the 90 Celsius engine and never stopped working.
As far as I know, there is a slight shift on the transmitting frequency when the crystal is heated but I still get a very good range out of it, even from inside the metal structure of the car.
Top notched peace of technology!!!  ;) ;) ;) ;)
Just go ahead with that project and don't forget to shows us some pics.

I'd probably need your amazing OTA programming technology before I could attempt such a feat because  it will need to be weatherproof.   ;)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 05:47:45 PM by WhiteHare »

gregcope

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2015, 03:40:36 PM »
re: Panasonic 1uA PIR do you mean this one;

http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic-electric-works/ekmb1103112/sensor-motion-12m-black/dp/2095745

EKMB1103111

Anyone tried one?

WhiteHare

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2015, 04:07:38 PM »
re: Panasonic 1uA PIR do you mean this one;


 Good find!  Yes, that one and the 1uA variations in that data sheet:  http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1537855.pdf

The prices, at least in the US based Element 14, seem very high though (maybe because their inventory is in the UK?)

Also, looks like Digikey has them after all:  http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?s=16115&FV=ffe831e5&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=500
For whatever reason, they didn't seem to show when I looked previoiusly. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 04:31:03 PM by WhiteHare »

gregcope

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2015, 04:34:38 PM »
re: Panasonic 1uA PIR do you mean this one;


 Good find!  Yes, that one and the 1uA variations in that data sheet:  http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1537855.pdf

The prices, at least in the US based Element 14, seem very high though (maybe because their inventory is in the UK?)

Also, looks like Digikey has them after all:  http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?s=16115&FV=ffe831e5&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=500
For whatever reason, they didn't seem to show when I looked previoiusly.


I cannot seem to find them for less than 15 odd, which is $25 ish

kobuki

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2015, 04:55:43 PM »
I'd like to note that this Panasonic one is the bare sensor. You'll need a shelter that fits the Moteino, the battery, possibly a movement indicator led, etc. The Optex one has it all and consumes 3.5 uA sleeping, which is 99.9% of its operation. The +2.5 uA doesn't make a difference in reality.

WhiteHare

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2015, 05:44:04 PM »
The +2.5 uA doesn't make a difference in reality.

Why doesn't it make a difference?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 05:46:35 PM by WhiteHare »

kobuki

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2015, 05:48:44 PM »
Was that really a question?

DPBaker

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2015, 07:11:23 AM »
I have a moteino out on the balcony where it gets afternoon tropical sunlight every afternoon. I regularly see temperatures in the high 50 degrees (Celcius). Haven't noticed any problems and even the 3 x AA batteries powering it are still running at 4.37V DC after 2 or 3 months in service.
This compares favourably with 6 other moteinos in rooms in the house.
The moteino in the fridge runs at between 3 and 5 degrees Celcius and it's battery pack is the lowest of the 8 systems at 4.29V DC after 2 or 3 months operation.

kobuki

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2015, 07:13:50 AM »
Can I ask what types of batteries are you using? Especially in the fridge. BTW, doesn't your fridge act as an RF shield? Are you having any kind of problems with that mote?

DPBaker

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2015, 09:01:48 AM »
Just using standard AA energizer batteries. No problems getting the RF out of the fridge which is a new model Samsung. I am updating all 7 wireless nodes at 5 second intervals to the 8th node connected to small PC in the middle of a 1300sq ft apartment.

syrinxtech

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2015, 10:48:23 PM »
In my outdoor weather unit I have recorded temps as high as 115 degrees inside the enclosure on many days in a row.  No problems.

WhiteHare

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2015, 04:31:21 PM »
Just closing the loop:   I received the EX-35R, and I measured it's idle current.  If powered at 3V, it does indeed seem to have somewhere between 3uA and 4uA current (spec sheet says 3.5uA current).  If powered at 9v, it has 8uA current, at least by my measurements, which were made using  a Fluke 87V in combination with Dave Jones's uCurrent Gold.  Even when activated following a confirmed detection (confirmed by pulse count that is), it didn't consume more than about 50-60uA at its peak, and the activation doesn't last longer than 5 seconds.  So, it does seem very energy efficient.

Also, there's ample space in the back compartment for batteries and a Moteino.  It could easily accomodate 3x AA.  It might even accomodate c-cells, though I haven't tested that idea yet.  Anyhow, there's a *lot* of space.

It's an open question as to how well it would hold up if exposed to rain.  It doesn't look watertight to me, and I'm pretty sure heavy rain might get into it.    I think it's probably meant for indoor use, but maybe (?) it would do OK in some covered outdoor locations where it's not getting heavily soaked.  Or maybe you could just put it into some kind of watertight enclosure that can pass IR.  Without making it ugly by covering all the edges in silicone, I imagine there should be some way to make it work outdoors.  On the other hand, maybe if the power source really could last 10 years or longer, I could just seal it up with no intention of ever opening it again...

The one drawback is that it seems to take about 2.5 seconds to trigger after the initial detection, whether it be in 2 pulse count or 4 pulse count mode.  It's much faster in "walk test" mode, which doesn't pulse count, but that consumes 9ma (how much of that is from the red LED I don't know) and obviously doesn't have the 2 minute wait for activity to cease before retriggering that the pulse modes have.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 05:05:51 PM by WhiteHare »

kobuki

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Re: How well does a Moteino hold up under heat?
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2015, 06:36:32 AM »
Recently we had an upgrade in our alarm system. I asked the folks a few practical questions. They primarily work with Paradox equipment (our system was working swiftly for about 18 years before starting to choke, and finally a lightning strike nearby has done it in somehow). They said that for outdoors op, you need to get an outdoors sensor, the indoor units are not really up for the task. It might be just the lack of proper weatherproofing, but also temperature tolerances. They also said that the Paradox wireless motions sensors can run on a set of 3 AA alkalines for about 3..5 years. Not bad. Yours is a general Optex one, and the lifespan of the batteries highly depends on what you put behind the sensor in the box. Oh, and the apparent slowness is not incidental, it's to minimise the radio transmitter activity of the sensor to save battery life. It should react quickly for the first detection but then it slows down until it stops sensing more motion in its range. Test mode/walking test is to support testing the sensor array and the alarm system at installation.